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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:29 am 
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Since there is so much focus on painting lately due to the new Empire models and paint line releases I thought it would be good to set up a thread for some tips we all use.
I know I'm not the best painter in the shop but these are somethings I have picked up from some of the guys who are, the internet and personal experience.

1. The brush matters. We hear that a lot but it really does make a difference. My dwarfs painting sucks. I was using generic brushes or an Army Painter basecoat brush for just about everything. Jay finally convinced me to go with some Sable brushes and it made a HUGE difference when I started my Lizardmen. Sable has a different motion than the synthetics and takes some getting used to but I like working with them now. Although for dry brushes Sable might be expensive for the pounding it will get.

2. Paint something big. One of the driving forces behind me starting Ogres was how large they are. Those large surfaces are great for trying new techniques on. I am psyched to take what the Ogres have taught me into a 20mm model. I think I personally would have pulled my hair out trying to learn new things on smaller models. Most armies have some large thing in them like a monster, cavalry or war machines.

3. Base-Midtone-highlight is totally worth learning. I remember being pissed about having to get my dwarfs done. They are basecoat and wash with a touch of dry brush. I hated rushing to get them done. I resented the time it took to paint them. With my Lizards I stepped it up to get better at drybrushing and adding details like basing. My Ogres are my favorite paint so far. I resisted base-midtone-highlight because of the time I thought it would take. Yes it is a slower process on the clock but I find it to go faster (time being relative to the individual and all). I love the look I am getting with this technique and don't get that paint rage the dwarfs gave me.

4. Sit in a comfy chair. I feel painting in my back if I sit on a wooden chair for more than an hour or so.

5. Two cups of water: one for metallics and one for non-metallics. Learned this the hard way when I found "glitter" on the back of a lizardman.

Please add your tips.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Vladbat wrote:
5. Two cups of water: one for metallics and one for non-metallics. Learned this the hard way when I found "glitter" on the back of a lizardman.

Please add your tips.

Use those cheap brushes for your metallics. There is a real mineral (I forget which) crushed up in there and it'll slash up the natural fiber brushes.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:20 pm 
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I had no idea.. Thanks..
Let's get this thread rolling everybody..

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:23 pm 
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Always wet your brush before a painting session. Doing so allows capillary action to draw the water into the base of the bristles to keep it moist, even as you dry the point. This prevents paint from later on doing the same. If paint were to dry in the base of your bristles, your brush is more or less screwed. Not something you want to do with $20 Winsor and Newtons

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:55 pm 
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Location: The streets of Malifaux
[quote="Vladbat"

1. The brush matters. We hear that a lot but it really does make a difference. My dwarfs painting sucks. I was using generic brushes or an Army Painter basecoat brush for just about everything. Jay finally convinced me to go with some Sable brushes and it made a HUGE difference when I started my Lizardmen. Sable has a different motion than the synthetics and takes some getting used to but I like working with them now. Although for dry brushes Sable might be expensive for the pounding it will get.


3. Base-Midtone-highlight is totally worth learning. I remember being pissed about having to get my dwarfs done. They are basecoat and wash with a touch of dry brush. I hated rushing to get them done. I resented the time it took to paint them. With my Lizards I stepped it up to get better at drybrushing and adding details like basing. My Ogres are my favorite paint so far. I resisted base-midtone-highlight because of the time I thought it would take. Yes it is a slower process on the clock but I find it to go faster (time being relative to the individual and all). I love the look I am getting with this technique and don't get that paint rage the dwarfs gave me.


[/quote]

1. Brush selection is detrimental in becoming a better painter. It's such a simple thing, but it really does make a huge difference. We already spend the extra cash on better quality paints (if you can really call it spending extra cash), the extra $10 on a better quality brush. I've seen my painting improve 10 fold by switching to sable brushes.

3. The better your miniatures start looking, the more you want to keep painting. Getting the praise from your peers also helps, as they begin to see your hard work paying off. This painting style fits my painting OCD, and I don't mine spending the 4-8 hours on one mini if they come out looking awesome. Dry brushing is a great beginners technique, but base-mid-highlight or "layering" is a much more effective (but time consuming) method. Learn it, and learn it well!!

Ask questions. Better painters are better than you, because they (more than likely) know more than you. Denis is a pool of knowledge and I've learned a lot just by be being lucky enough for him to take me under his wing. From priming with grey, to base coating models with brown, and learning how to layer, just by asking him "how you do that?", I've seen drastic results.

Water down your paints. You want the pigment to "fall beneath" the bristles of your brush. It also helps to paint with thinner layers of paint to avoid those thick coats and brush lines.

Color theory, although not necessary, can really bring out your paint jobs.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:32 am 
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As a beginning painter I would love if someone would post on brush maintenance. Thank you. Chris


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:06 am 
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Cornelious1424 wrote:

1. Brush selection is detrimental in becoming a better painter.

I think you mean instrumental....detrimental is bad.

Brush maintenance:

Not much to it really. I don't think I have ever "treated" my W&N sables with any kind of product. I have some brush soap, but I'd be hard-pressed to find it.

Rule # 1. Don't DON'T allow paint into the ferrule (the metal part above the bristles). It will dry in there and spread the bristles - which will totally kill the brush.

Thin your paints with water or a product designed for that (I use water). Just pick up the paint with the tip of your brush - if you've thinned it properly (this will take some practice) the paint will be drawn into the brush.

Rule #2. Clean constantly. I keep a cup of water and a paper towel nearby. After two maybe three loads of paint in the brush, I clean it. Thinning the paint causes it to dry faster and you don't want it even thinking about drying.

That's it for me. Keeping it clean while painting is all you need, my brushes will easily last a year of heavy painting just by being clean.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:26 am 
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Thanks Denis, just wanted to make sure i wasent damaging my brushes with dish soap.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:52 am 
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So much for using big words... :|

I'll go back to words like: good, bad, cat, prostitute.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:22 pm 
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Jay, as a moderator for this board can you move this topic to General Discussion. This has to do with a lot more than just WHFB and people that don't check this board should see it - it was really just a fluke that I caught it at all, I rarely check this side of the boards. (Although honestly it might get more exposure here.)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:07 pm 
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I never knew you should have a cup of water for metallics and a cup for non.

I would recommend another cup of "clean" water for diluting paint, inks, or washes on the brush.

I use old blister packs as paint palettes. Great way to recycle them.

Lighting is also key. I have a $20 adjustable lamp that can swivel in a variety of directions. Depending on what I'm painting I can angle the lamp to avoid shadows on the spot I am currently painting. I've read that daylight is the best to paint by but given that almost every person who sees your army will see it under florescent lighting, I recommend using that while you paint so it looks the same at a tournament as it does on your painting table. I have often been kind of surprised at how my army looks on the table because the lighting where I play is very different from the lighting I paint under. A lot of people also use magnifier lamps. I don't because I don't care enough to, but I can see myself using one in 10-15 years as my eyesight gets worse.

GW brushes suck as they last about five seconds before they fall apart and splay. I have found they can last a lot longer if you use brush conditioner on them, easily attainable at a good art supply store.

Speaking of art supply stores, know where a good one is and visit it. Michael's doesn't count because it sucks. If you're very knowledgeable and know exactly what you need a place like Michael's can be okay. If you need help or want to find much higher quality art supplies that will make you a better painter, I recommend Blick or Pearl Paint, dedicated art supply stores with actual artists working there who know what the hell they're doing. Going to an art supply store can be very eye opening as you can get paints, textures, mediums, flock materials, terrain making material, etc., at MUCH cheaper prices than what GW or other companies will sell the stuff to you for.

Washes and inks are your friend for getting models table ready quickly, as is dipping. There should be no reason why people have unpainted models on the table. Here's how I avoid that:

1) Figure out your color palette. Let's take my WoC for example. I wanted to go for a dark iron plate armor look like the one found in the movie Excalibur (if you play WFB and haven't seen this, you need to). This means I need lots of metallic colors. I will need darker ones for my base and lighter ones for highlighting. Having all silver based metallics will be boring, so I want to add some contrasting colors. These will be reds and blues because my army is Khorne and Tzeentch.

2) Wash wash wash: I want a really dark iron look, and when you want a dark look, starting with black primer works really well. I would then have to very subtly add layers of successively brighter metallics and greys so as to keep the black very prominent. This would be a real pain for the 100+ chaos warriors I have.

Instead, I prime them a bright silver and hit them with gobs of Badab Black wash (now called Nuln Oil because GW sucks, I mean what the hell is a Nuln Oil anyway? At least Badab Black had "black" in the title so you know what color it is). I now have a model that is instantly shaded from grey silver, to very dark silver, to black in the crevasses. I can now highlight and add details. The magic of this technique is that it takes five seconds and your army will not look like crap if you just put it on the table like that. Will it look Gold Demon awesome? No, but it will be passable. You can now take your time adding more paint and finishing every model, but if you want to play some games in between, you won't have brightly primed or bare plastic crap on the table.

3) You can do this with almost any kind of miniature as long as you follow step one well. It does work best on models with little to no skin showing like knights and space marines. My police Yu Jing? Primed white with Asurmen blue wash. They now look like shaded, blue based cops and I can add details in between games. My cowboys from Black Water Gulch? Primed white, black wash so they now have their details highlighted. Because they show a lot of skin, I have to actually put some detail paint on to make them look like they're not ghosts. Asurmen Blue on the pants, Devlin Mud on the shirts and spaghetti western coats and they now looks like they have pale skin and clothing. Add flesh tones in between games, paint the guns silver with a Badab Black wash, and poof done.

Now again, this method is not going to win you any painting prizes (although this is what my army looked like at Crossroads where I got a better painting score than Dave which shocked the hell out of me), and I have received many obnoxious comments about how my armies lack detail. It does look 1000 times better than bare plastic or white primer, however, and there's unfortunately a lot of that down at BG. It also lets your army sort of look painted while you paint it as opposed to look half painted or unpainted.

It will also probably not produce an end result as good as GW style highlighting or building up layers of color even when you add loads of detail to your models. But for someone like me who just doesn't have the patience to get my armies to that standard, it will give your army a solid "table" quality paint job with a lot less hassle.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Website on paint brushes for minis, some good info here
http://www.dndlead.com/Painting/Paintbrushes.htm


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:43 pm 
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Don't be ashamed to wait on the expensive brushes if you're very new. Don't ever use Kolinski Sable for drybrushing or for heavy inking - you're just throwing money away. Use the cheapest brushes you can for these methods.

Drybrushing and inking are excellent novice techniques and are great for cranking out the work for mass armies (anything GW springs to mind). These techniques get you used to how the paint works and how the brush feels - giving some brush control. Save your most time consuming styles for heroes and such.

The more advanced techniques take much longer and will serve well for skirmish games like Malifaux or Infinity but I have seen many fine crews for these games using just the simpler techniques.

Read, read, read. There are a million topics out there for painters. I still read a lot.
Experiment. Don't feel bad if you try something new and a model looks like crap. You learned something painting that crappy model.
Practice. That crappy model, yeah there are gonna be a lot of those.....but you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Dirty-D wrote:
Jay, as a moderator for this board can you move this topic to General Discussion. This has to do with a lot more than just WHFB and people that don't check this board should see it - it was really just a fluke that I caught it at all, I rarely check this side of the boards. (Although honestly it might get more exposure here.)


Hey D,

Yeah, I sometimes think the exposure here is simply far greater. I'll give it a few more days and see if we reel in any fish from the other boards.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:20 pm 
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My tidbit of wisdom...

1) Patience is learned. For some of you, the idea that a single model might take ten hours to paint seems like insanity. I certainly doesn't for me anymore. Just last night I spent about three hours working on glazing a sword blade to get just the right transition from golden yellow to bright silver. What you consider done today may not be done six months from now. It takes time.

2) Know what your goals are. I honestly think Jeremy's approach is a very good first step for anyone with the daunting task of getting an entire army on the table fully painted. Then you get to be a sick asshole like me and decide to replace and repaint half of an entire painted army.

On the other hand, Roy's Knights of Krylon are legendary and for him they serve the purpose he set out to achieve, painted knights. If your goal is to have a painted army, Jeremy has a good approach and you shouldn't dismiss techniques invented for speed.

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