Brothers Grim Games and Collectibles

So I just played my first game with the new U.S. Tank Company against an utterly brutal list Chris put together. It was not only a fun game, but ridiculously educational.

The biggest thing I took away from it is this, Easy Eights suck.

In most tournaments, tank companies will often be attacking infantry lists, because that's what lots of people will bring. If you take Easy Eights, you simply won't have enough shots to ever kill enough infantry bases to ever get anything done. If you take a U.S. Tank Company and fill it full of more shooting, you will probably do far better.

Now if the FoW meta game were different, and you actually had a reasonable chance to face another tank company, Easy Eights would be pretty amazing. Unfortunately, that won't be the case. It certainly won't be that way at this Saturday's tournament in Nanuet. It looks like almost every Axis player is taking some kind of infantry company.

The good news is that Jumbos are amazing as are the up armored M4A3's. Pak 40's and 88's were bouncing off my tank platoons like rice off a curb. So I'm considering taking a swarm of M4A3's with some artillery and a mixed bag of other stuff instead of my all Easy Eight list.

What do you guys think?

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http://www.infinitythegame.com

The Panzergrenadier Lehr lists we're going to see at Nanuet aren't going to be pure infantry lists. There isn't a pure infantry Lehr list, as far as I'm aware. I'll double check, but as far as I'm aware the most infantry heavy list they could bring is a mechanized halftrack list.

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"Never Underestimate the Power of Stupid People in Large Numbers"

I still don't think it will warrant bringing Easy Eights. They're really only useful against a tank company which I think only one German player is bringing... real shame because the models are gorgeous.

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http://www.infinitythegame.com

If any of the Panzer Lehr lists are, well Lehr, there were be big cats. At least a platoon of Panthers or Tigers each. Just saying.

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"Never Underestimate the Power of Stupid People in Large Numbers"

Maybe that'll be enough tankage to shoot at to make Easy Eights worth taking. We'll see...

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http://www.infinitythegame.com

I can't even comment on the usefulness of Easy8s because I can't get past
This line. . .


*facepalm*

Well if you look at the lists people are bringing on Saturday, I have about an 80% chance to not play a tank company in any of my three games. Andrew is taking 10 Panzer II's for the mid war tournament because of the preponderance of infantry companies. That seems to be where the meta game is right now, plan on facing an infantry company because they're a tougher nut to crack. I'm surprised no one is bringing the new FH Panzer company from the new book frankly. That would be a fun matchup for Easy Eights. Not having enough shots to put a dent in an infantry company isn't.

Not sure why that's facepalm inducing...

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http://www.infinitythegame.com

Alot of us play infantry lists because it was the cheapest way to get into the game, and as a whole, we're not good players. We're not paying them because they're "ruling the meta game". People haven't been whining about T34 lists and "Big Cats" for nothing. Take the time to look at some of these popular "Infantry Companies" too; they're infantry in name only.

If you're relying on Easy 8s to kill dug in infantry, it has nothing to due with them sucking


Easy 8s fill a MUCH needed role in the US arsenal and are fast enough to get on the flanks of enemy tanks without loosing their fire power. That's exactly it, they fill a ROLE within an army, which by the way, is not killing dug in infantry.

I eagerly look forward to your next Whine-fest after using a unit for one game
How about you whine about M18s for your next performance, because there can be some actual debate between M10s and M18s

Jeremy, I think the point that everyone is trying to get you to see is that you are sounding very naive about Flames of War. A tank company can beat an infantry company just as easily as another tank company. The difference is what kind of support you have and, more importantly, you have to play different tactics against each. Against infantry you can't just roll up shooting haphazardly into assault range and make a go at it. You have to first pin whatever is in range to defensive fire at you. Attack at a spot where there is a minimum of tank damaging weapons within 8". You have a mobility that infantry lacks making it much easier for you to get to flanks or even more weakly defended objectives.

Keep in mind also that there isn't just tank companies and infantry companies, there is also mechanized companies. I would bet that there are actually more mech companies at that tournament than infantry companies.

As for the facepalm, let me give you an analogy. "I just bought the Space Marines but I keep losing. The Space Marines are supposed to be the best and win all the time. They suck."

And now the Easy 8's: Easy 8's allow you to move and still get two "dug-in infantry killing" shots at no penalty per tank! How in hell does that suck?

Well I don't really think Easy Eights suck and I do understand that they fill a specific role, which seems to be that of tank killer. They seem to be quite well suited to that role, even against the nastier German tanks.

The whole point of this post was more to throw the idea out there about how to use Easy Eights than it was to whine about them. There's nothing inherently wrong with them, but it seems like points are better spent on regular Shermans if I know there won't be a huge amount of tanks against me.

Joe D recommended maxing them out and dropping artillery off my list completely. This just seems like a bad idea to me if I'll be facing mostly infantry and mech lists. Normal Shermans just get more effective shots against anything that isn't a tank than an Easy Eight would.

So while I agree that my list had problems and I certainly made mistakes on the table, I'm also left confused because Joe D helped me write the list.

Should I really max out Easy Eights when I know I'm going up against lists with lower tank density?

In terms of the meta game, I've had two observations.

One, a lot of the good players in the store have told me infantry lists have huge avantages.

Two, when I've played tank companies in tournaments at the store, I get owned. When I've played infantry companies I've beaten better and more experiences players than myself. I did really well at wounded warrior and I chalk it up to the fact that I played an infantry list and certainly not my skill. The opposite has also been true. When I play against infantry heavy lists with a tank company, I get tabled. Maybe tank companies are harder to play, maybe I suck more with tanks than with infantry, I don't know.

This is probably where my naivite comes from, my experiences with the game have been skewed to say the least.

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http://www.infinitythegame.com

Well, part of the problem is we're spitballing about a book that's been out for three weeks. To be honest, the metagame has been disrupted by the very list that you're talking about. This tournament is going to help shape the metagame. This tournament is probably going to in some small way impact the netlisting that goes on on the Battlefront website.

Also, people don't talk about infantry lists being all-conquering murderers at the shop. *I* talk about being infantry lists being all-conquering murderers at the shop, because my list is. That's because, without sounding like I'm bragging, I happen to be one of the top two or three players at our store, and I play infantry. Al is the other one, and his mechanized/tank list is right up there with my infantry list. I'll admit it, I'm a loud bragging asshole, but to be honest, in this one game, and only in this one game, thus far, for the last couple of years, I actually bring the funk to back my shit up.

Jeremy, you're still learning how to play the game. Get more than a dozen games in before you say your list sucks. I'm not saying that to mock you. I'm really not. I'm saying that with all sincerity. I honestly don't know how your list will play against an average German mech list simply because I haven't seen it happen yet. Take the list you feel most comfortable playing with this weekend and play your three games. Then we'll break it down critically, without any kvetching, and figure on it from there. Maybe we'll get Al involved. Basing all of our comparisons on your one game against Chris, who used a very unconventional German list from the new book which has all sorts of ridiculousness on its own, is not the way to go.

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"Never Underestimate the Power of Stupid People in Large Numbers"

I just want to mention that I was not using the new book for that game. I was playing Sturmkompanie from Grey Wolf.

The Name of This Thread is, "Easy 8's Suck. . . "

You're like a train wreck, I can't stop watching

It's called hyperbole...

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http://www.infinitythegame.com

Ah, well Chris that weakens my argument a bit, but not especially.

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"Never Underestimate the Power of Stupid People in Large Numbers"